The Daily Post asks: “It’s never a good idea to discuss religion or politics with people you don’t really know. Agree or disagree?”.
And I do agree. I am politics interested but don’t care much about any religion. I accept that people believe in what they believe. So let me first say, you wouldn´t see me talking much about religion with anybody anyway. I let people believe what they believe while I don’t stop inform myself about the latest news of natural sciences. That´s what I do believe in. I think a conversation would be pointless here because both beliefs are pretty far away from each other. And I don’t want to convince somebody anyway while I really don’t want to hear anything about religion. Which means I can’t answer the question related to religion.
But when it comes to politics, I can answer the Daily Post question. It´s not often that I do have a conversation about politics with anybody other than my friends or the family. The reason above might fit too. But there are several other reasons why. And I hope you wont get me wrong. Look how I am afraid to write about this topic? Well, let me explain because this is typical german. I think everybody knows the history of germany. And you might ask why I come up with it now. Let me explain…
Right now we are in a situation in germany where only one opinion is valid. Here, you get taught what kind of opinion that is by the media, by the politicians.
Every other opinion which differs to what they teach you each day, will give you the stamp of being nationalist or how they say “a Nazi”. This really doesn´t mean you are a “Nazi” it simply does mean they hate it that you have a different opinion.
Let me be afraid again… Some of you know me already from blogging. Do I appear like a Nazi? No, I am open to everyone, I learn other languages, I love people nevermind where they are from or what they believe in, I am interested in other cultures and love to find stories from different countries here on WordPress.
That sounds ok right? But it isn´t. Because you can get the “Nazi” stamp impressed anyway and that pretty fast in Germany. Let me give some examples:
Let´s take the USA as an example. I heard that if I would like to live in the USA, I would need to meet different requirements. For example a job in sight which would make it possible to get a Greencard, which on the other hand would make it possible to file an immigration petition.
To not going deeper into this subject area I just want to tell you, if you would demand that it should be in germany the same,… I mean if you would demand or discuss this kind of opinion in public… You know what would happen? Most people around you would startle afraid, and trying not to get into that topic. Because they got taught that every topic related to immigration could make you to a “Nationalist” in other eye´s in case your opinion is slighty different than the opinion of the left-wing. They get taught everyday in the media that the opinion “We can’t let enter everyone in our fiscal system due to economic reasons” is the same like “I hate all foreigner and don’t want them to be here because I am a Nazi”. That´s what they try to tell us everyday but in fact it is not the same meaning. But that leads to several people who are from now on afraid to say their opinion in public. And whenever there is a politics topic, they duck their heads.
Shorter if you want to have the example vice versa… The immigration act of the USA is ok and they don’t speak about it, but if you demand the same system as a german citizen for germany, then you are a nationalist. Understand?
As said, I don’t hate every foreigner. I don’t hate anybody! In fact I hate parts of german history! I just think that if let me say, ten people put money in a box, then these ten people should get something out later like “pension” when they get old and anything what a country is doing with their taxes. The math will be broken if we bring in 30 more people who don’t put any money in the box but want something out later. And the sad fact is that there are many people come in who think Germany is a welfare. And I do think this is wrong… people who come here should not only take but also give the system something back. I don’t want to generalize because I know many nice immigrants who today have success in germany. It is possible and should be the target for those who come here. So what the USA is doing, is in my eye´s correct. There should be some requirements for immigration. A country can still give, if it has enough.. helping people is great but they must have a dream and work for it. In germany you can get in trouble if you say this in public. I heard people asking “Do you hate foreigner?”… Hell, no? Why should I hate them? They seemed not to understand what I mean. That has nothing to do with hating somebody. I mean why should I hate somebody? Because I demand that they should over time become a job if they immigrate, so that the taxes, expenses and all the math of our country don’t gets broken? That people demand that we should slow down immigration for a while when it is obviously that the own citizens of the lower class get already poorer and poorer over the years?
The problem is that this is already nationalistic in many heads because taught. Politics and media is only left-wing and there is not a real alternative party on the right. It doesn´t even matter what you choose while elections. It´s all the same. I more often hear people saying lately that the media is brought into line like the parties as well. Ok there are some parties on the very extreme and radical right side but they are really hateful and nationalistic which means they aren´t any alternative as well and fortunately anyway no one would elect them. The right-wing conservatives, that´s what several people miss today. There is nothing in the middle. There is no conservative right-wing.. everything is left, hard left. Talking about politics, a friend said to me, we live in a nuthouse and sometimes I do think he is right. Where I got all my impressions about what people miss? Well, friends, people around here, comments in the biggest german news magazines.. a lot speak the same while others are just happy.
The good side is that more and more people don’t give a shit anymore about the things they tell us in the media or what politicians mean. But there are still many who believe everything they get told and then let´s go back to the question “It’s never a good idea to discuss politics with people you don’t really know. Agree or disagree?”. I agree for germany! It is often better not to talk about politics with people you don’t know yet. It might be they babble the things down they learned in television and understand you wrong and blame you wrongfully to be a nazi while you in fact are nothing else then a conservative. Do I really want this? No, because I am not a nazi and my friends aren´t as well. I know a lot of conservatives while we have several immigrants in our friend circle as well. One of my best friends is a Turk, another friend polish origin and I could count up more.
But there is one thing I must say. Several of my friends with other descent came here and did integrate on their own. We didn´t have to integrate them! They wanted to learn our language and they did. They can believe in what they want but what some people do demand is that they need to speak some german if they are already over ten years here. My friends can speak german nevermind what kind of descent. They all learned it. They accept our laws and anything else. The only difference is that some of them believe in another religion which is perfectly ok. Even my Turk best friend said someday to me that he can´t understand that some come in here and can´t even speak a single sentence german after five years. Do I have again to say what would happen if I as a german would say this in public? It might be that there are people who listened to me and later call me a nazi. Because this single opinion, that I do demand that people should learn our language if they want to stay here for ever. That they can still believe in their religion but they must accept our laws. That is already one critical opinion you should be careful with if you are a german. Because our history. For some it is already too much. How ever they do it, but they do connect everything with our history. As taught in the media and by the politics. I don’t understand it because vice versa… if I would migrate to france, one of the first things I would want to do on my own, is learning the language. Point. Is a Frenchman a nationalist, if he thinks I should learn his language when I want to immigrate? Right, he isn´t.
I want to spare you with more details but I hope you didn´t get me wrong. Look? I am still afraid and didn´t even know if I should write about this topic. But since several years now there is a very quite conflict of opinions here in germany when it comes to politics. Germans full of distrust against each other when it comes to politics. There is still the collective guilt in the head which people partially accept even if they aren´t born in the time of wars. And it stops people thinking on their own and makes them afraid even to speak out the word “Immigrant”! And I do think that is what our parties want. No other opinions. They don’t want conservative thinking. Only one opinion allowed. The left-wing opinion.
I do of course agree that it is bad what happened in the past and that it never should happen again and we never should forget. But I must also say that I am somewhat pissed about our politicians and media that they still maintain the collective guild in the heads of the crowd. It is already pathological. When they still tell us twenty times a day in the media that “we germans did start the war.. we did it!”, I must say “No, the people from that time did it. Not me, I am just born in the place where it happened a half century ago”. So there a thousands of people sick of hearing it while the other half follows the daily “You are war criminal, be careful even conservative thinking is too much!”.
Morbit it gets when people act like in my examples above. When they compare everything they hear with our past. When they call you a nazi because you said that you prefer the good old “Deutsche Mark” instead of the “Euro Currency”. I didn´t say I prefer the “Reichsmarkt”. So where please is the Third Reich in my sentence? Isn´t this morbidly? That is not only on the streets, you see it in television as well in politics talk shows. They defame each other just because single words or opinions. It´s often a madhouse.
So again: “It’s never a good idea to discuss politics with people you don’t really know. Agree or disagree?”. In my country, I agree. There are Authors, Politicians, people from Television in and many more in germany, who had to leave there place simply because they did say something too much conservative, others didn´t want to hear. And some had to accept assumption. That is the new “Freedom of Opinion” which makes people stay quite or get into line. While others more and more get sick about the taught newspeak rules and so.
For me a nationalist like in the Third Reich is something completely different then a conservative. So, as long as you must be careful what to say, I rarely speak about politics with people I don’t really know. I can do that with friends, family because I know they are not pathological haunted by guilt. They are open-minded people and some of them actually from different countries as well. And I do have swedish roots, so how can I be an evil german adorer of the Third Reich? Luckily my family and friends don’t need a bad conscience as they are open-minded and modern nevermind wherefrom. The real new misanthropist are those who sit in their armchairs above us and trying to teach us how to think and that with the mentioned primitive methods. The politicians and their court reporters.
Fortunately, in my circles nobody needs to defame each other. We do accept every religion, opinions and origin. I am lucky that we can there also talk about politics like fair people with respect and without stupid defamation. Most of my friends dislike the Euro Currency and they are everything else then nationalists. It´s their right to think that the Euro Currency did made us all poorer. That is something the elite dislikes to hear because they did invent it. That´s why they need come up with big weapons like “You all are nationalists if you don’t share our opinion!” everyday. That is crude. But enough citizens fall into the trap.
So do I like to talk about politics with people I don’t know? No, not in germany.
6 thoughts on “Daily Prompt: Polite Company”
Dennis I was very interested in what you had to say. Although I am less of a conservative than I used to be I agree with many of the points you made. Politics is always a sensitive subject, in any country not just Germany but I can see you have some unique problems there. I’m afraid that until my parents generation, who were in the war, and possibly my own who were affected by it are gone it is always a subject that will be brought up and that Germans will have to deal with. It is the same for the Japanese, many Australians still don’t like or trust them. To hear what it is like to be a citizen of one of the countries that “started the war” is very interesting. I agree by the way that it has nothing to do with you.
Our present government would probably agree with you about immigrants, well refugees anyway. I understand with my head but my heart says you don’t turn away people whose only crime is to want a better life. Apart from indigenous Australians we all came from somewhere else originally including me!
I agree with you. And even if your are less of a conservative, I enjoyed reading your comment due to the fact that there are no accusations in your comment like it would be if you would discuss this issue here in germany with some people.
My opinion is that I or other germans, japanese and any other people of the world should´t forget what happened. My philosophy here is that war never can be good and all the crime that happens in a war anyway not. But the media or political content does sound sometimes today as if we were the criminals. It´s like if they would address us directly… we are the shame. That´s what people can´t hear anymore because we all are fully aware of the fact that war is nothing but evil. I think it´s the amount and the way how they tell us about our history… that makes some people sick. It´s too much if you hear it on 30 tv channels 40 times a day. Then I hear people saying “I can´t hear it anymore”. That does mean it causes the opposite.. people can´t hear about history anymore.
About Immigrants I agree with you too… My heart says I would help anybody but my head say that this must be connected with some rules. I would open the country doors to anybody and I wouldn´t expect that they learn our language or get a job in one year. I know some of the immigrants come from places where they had a bad life, for example because of a war and I am aware that a fresh start in a different country is not easy. It´s ok if they need some time to get right here in our country. But I really expect that they should speak at least some german after a decade for example. And also our laws should be accepted. There are a lot of immigrants who accepted the help and integrated them self to a new country. Some of my friends for example. But sadly there are also those who think that they don´t have to. This is sad because I think that I would be interested to learn the language if I choosed another country and I would accept their culture and their laws. I do think this is a must.
As this article here is a little bit older, I noticed my english has improved a little bit and the english in this article is still a little bit messy.. I must sort out some errors I guess 😀
It must be quite hard to write your blog in a language other than your own. I admire you for doing that and for being so open in your comments despite your fear of talking about politics with people who don’t really know you.
Regarding learning the language of the country you wish to live in I do agree and I think it is a requirement for emigrating to Australia now. I used to work with many people who came to Australia from all parts of Europe in the 50s and 60s, they were a lot older than me and I enjoyed getting them to talk about their home countries and particularly about how they came to Australia. Mostly I knew Italians, Greeks, Maltese and Poles. My co workers told me that when they arrived some of them could barely speak English. They learned because they were working with Australians and speaking the language all the time. However some of them told me that their wives who did not mix with Australians as much did not learn to speak English as well and often preferred to speak in their native language which was what they used at home. I met the adult children of some of these people and they spoke both languages but seemed Australian in their outlook. Their young children spoke only English and so could not always understand “Nonna” when she spoke her native language. That happened in the space of about 30 years. . I think that when immigrant groups only mix within in their own group it is harder for them to learn the language. They have to make the effort to get out and mix with their new countrymen and women but they need to be made welcome to do that. So responsibilities on both sides I think. It is good to keep your culture but you should also be a good citizen of your new country. I think I’m lucky to live in Australia which although not perfect is a multicultural country.
I did realise that your post was an old one but it is a very interesting subject isn’t it?
Yes this is an interesting subject. You made some good points. You mentioned the groups and that reflects my own experience with my friends who immigrated. They found a connection with germans pretty fast and I think that this truly helps both sides. My german friends and me were able to experience cultural exchange, cosmopolitan attitudes or multicultural get-together with the new friends from different countries while they had people around them who would help with the german language, and some other things they wanted to learn. It was a hell of fun and I made friends for life and I even did learn many words from their country and did eat food of all kind and all the cool things. It´s a good friendship today and still very Interesting. But this was the perfect mix of both sides as you mentioned when you talked about groups.
This mixed group can be essential for integration I agree. I can find a fault of our goverment here after reading your point. There are simply too many “ghettos” how they call them in movies, and if you arrive here you have no chance to find another place for living unless you came with some money in your pockets. If not, then this will happen, the immigrants will stay in their own groups, in their neighbourhoods or streets. I know a street here with apartment towers in Lübeck where “only” immigrants live (I mean maybe 80% or 90%) and a small amount of very poor germans. This kind of living room creation can´t be good. The goverment should mix it to give them a chance because there grows the root of crime because they have no other chance and no perspective there. And well, criminal immigrants will call up disappointments of german natives. It´s a doom loop. But positive is that we have many companies which like to give immigrants a job, a chance. This actually very positive as you said too in your example and I could mention many success stories of integration here too.
About my english blog, yes it was hard at first but today I experience more fluid writing down when I heck out new articles. It´s funny when I compare my 2011 articles with the new ones. I should rework the older ones someday as I even have to shake my head as a german when I see my 2011 english gramma. 😀 Let´s see how I think in 2015 about my 2014 articles. Blogging is good for language learning. 🙂
Thank you for your great input on the subject.