My wife needed something. Guess what happens when she needs something? Right, she unblocks me and contacts me as nothing ever happened. Doesn’t even matter if she gave birth to our daughter 5 days ago without telling me, the father. But when she need something, she nonchalantly writes…
“The baby is born. I need a signature from you so that I can apply for child allowances. I did put the papers in your mail box, I need the papers back, signed, in the evening.”
I told her that I know about the birth, as I asked the hospital. I then asked her some questions. Some questions about the baby, but attempts to give my lawyer ammunition, like the question why she didn’t tell me earlier and why I had to get the information myself. I didn’t get an answer, at least not via chat.
I then asked for a baby photo. About the baby health and so on. She had difficulties to reply. Thus I pressured her “You’re not sharing information nor photos?”. I am father and she needs to share information and so on about the baby. Of course I am interested, and yes, I am waiting for mistakes too.
She just repeated herself and said “Sign the papers so that I can apply for the money”. I then asked her “Does that mean, you don’t want to share details about our baby with me?”.
It took a while. I guess she had a crisis meeting with her antisocial and narcissist mother, asking her what to reply. I just waited for something stupid, like a no, but that would be too easy.
She did send me a picture of our baby. And honestly, that’s more worth than ammunition against my wife. Such a cute baby. My wife asked because the papers again and I told her that I will take a look at it and sign after examination and if everything is fine.
I repeated unanswered questions again for example about the health status of our baby. She didn’t answer, thus I wrote a report with screenshots for my lawyer this evening. I will visit the hospital the next week and ask some questions.
But since I told her to look at the papers, she thought I would sign it right away. Thus, I got a bread crumb, a phone call from her… “Hey, do you want to see the baby right now?”. I told her yes, she said I can stop by, she comes down with the baby in the hallway. Yes, that’s mean, but I thought I can at least see our baby for the first time.
I met her, saw our little daughter. My wife asked me “Do you want to hold her?”. Yes, of course. It was such a wonderful moment to have my daughter in my arms. I told my wife that we have a beautiful daughter. Mainly focused at my daughter, I payed attention to my wife for a moment and saw her splitting from “I hate you” to “I must be wrong to hate him”. She had these facial expressions again, like a month ago in the park when I calmed her down.
But, I focused on my daughter again. Such a cutie. I asked my wife the health question again. She replied this time “Well, all the stress during pregnancy, it had an impact on the baby, we had to visit the hospital due to that everyday”. Yeah, sure… talking shit again. She just recently left the hospital, and already talks about visiting it every day. I just replied “You mean the stress you already had before the pregnancy, right? Don’t say again that I stressed you”. Strangely enough, she just noted. Is she accepting again, that the stress she is talking about is a borderline symptom? Talking about baby, I will ask the hospital health related questiones next week anyway.
But overall it wasn’t really a toxic situation now. It’s only been strange to see our baby in the hallway, not in the apartment. Oh I remember, I almost forgot, I am the evil monster. Now she said she wants to go inside again, I gave her the baby and took a new photo. It wasn’t much time, maybe 10 minutes, but it didn’t escalate. When she had the baby in the arm again, she didn’t go upstairs right away, so, now I’ve been focused on the baby and my wife a little bit more. It was strange to see her. You see her cognitive dissonance in her face… I am not kidding. Her facial expressions are saying “It’s kinda strange, how can I think this dude is so evil, he appears so peaceful, maybe I’ve been wrong?”.
She went upstairs, I went outside and looked back, that’s when I realized her ugly narcissist mother was standing in the hallway floor above us all the time. Now it makes sense that I just got 10 minutes, her controlling mummy probably scheduled the meeting. Out of altruism? I am kidding… of course not.
As much as I know this family dynamic already, here is what must have happened when I went back home through the park. My wife went back in her apartment with her mother, and her narcissistic mother asked very likely “Do you have the signed papers? No? What the fuck? I told you that you need to ask him to bring the papers back, signed!!! That’s the only reason to show him the baby!!!”.
I am not just saying it because I know her mother, who is pretty much fucked up in the brain. I actually got a second phone call from my wife when I arrived home, her mother complaining in the background, and my wife telling me in a submissive tone (afraid of her mother) “I thought you would bring the signed papers with you??? Why didn’t you do that???”. I replied “Nope, actually not, only my mother has the keys for the mail box and she hasn’t been at home before I stopped by”.
Anyway, I went to the mail box later when my mother arrived and found the application my wife talked about. I read thought it and noticed right away that she just gave me the page where I have to sign. Only the page where you put your signature. I went online and searched for the form to see what is missing. Well, basically, EVERYTHING, except that last page with the signature box.
I wrote my wife again “Hey, can you please give me the entire application, filled out entirely? You can put it into the mail box today or when you have time the next days? I check the entire application then and sign it for you”.
She replied “I told you what it is for, I just need your signature”. I then replied “Look, before you tell me again that I want to put a spoke in your wheel, like you often claimed in the past… here is how things work. Never in my entire life time did I put a signature on to an application or papers, without knowing and having read ALL associated and filled out pages and taking a copy for myself. Can you understand me? I can help you, but I must see the entire application, filled out.”
She then told me that there are like 20 pages that are not relevant to me. I then asked her why my signature would be relevant then? It’s an application with 20 plus pages, and my signature will be associated to all of them. See, that is the difference between having a fucked up mother like my wife does and a good mother. This is the stuff my mother taught me “Son, don’t sign shit, unless you know what it is about and want to sign it”. No matter who asks you, no matter where, no matter why. You read the shit before you sign. And take your time to ask yourself “Do I actually need to sign this or not?”.
It was almost like my wife understood my philosophy now. But of course she didn’t. It’s just that borderline brains work differently. “Uhh ohh, I see, I might sign it, but he wants to see it all? Easy, maybe I offer him to stop by and let him read through 20 plus pages in the hallway, under pressure”. Can you guess what my reply was?
“Seriously, I don’t like doorstep selling either” and “Look, I don’t repeat myself again. I will help you with this, but you need to put the entire application, filled out, into my mail box but I can also stop by and pick it up. I examine the application, and if everything is right, I sign it and you have it back within a few days”.
By the time I wrote her that she will get it back within a few days, I googled already that she has a lot of time anyway. Even if we would have it in our hands for 6 months… they can pay out retroactive for 6 months. Now this is the extreme case… I just need a few days and without telling her, I would have asked my lawyer if I am unsure to sign it or in case I would have any questions. Meaning, she would have gotten it from me in a few days.
Now she replied to me “I need it this evening, because I want to hand it over to the authorities tomorrow!”. Strange that I didn’t notice it myself. Today is Saturday and tomorrow is Sunday. The question “Visiting the authorities on Sunday?” would have been funny. But at least I was able to laugh about it with my mother later the day, because it was her who noticed it.
Anyway, I replied to my wife “As said, I am going to help you, I gonna check and sign the application, you know what you need to do”. She then replied “Then I will break every possible way of contact with you Dennis and from now on everything with lawyers”. My message “Okay, if you don’t want my help, fine”. And then her profile photo disappeared, meaning… BLOCKED again (happened gazillions times before).
Now I wonder how she will explain this to her lawyer. “Hey yo, my husband didn’t want to sign those papers, Lawyer: “Well, wait… did you only give him the last page???”. Wife: “Yes, oh wait, no, I mean… HE JUST DIDN’T SIGN YOU KNOW???? DOOO SOMETHING!!!???”. Or she lies again, that she gave me all pages, so that it’s my turn. It’s like a game of chess, I already backed up the recent chat again and printed it out for my lawyer.
So here we are again. New drama… she is so high conflict, it’s almost funny. Anyway. I feel very good today because I saw my daughter and this gives me mental strength. I do also have one picture now. I think my wife took it in the hospital. And I took one myself today too. So, when ever I need mental strength, I am going to look at the two photos of our cutie daughter and keep fighting for her.
Diary of Dennis 
Congratulations on the birth of your daughter. I am glad you got to see her and have photos although it must have been disappointing that you could not be there when she was born.
You sound better today. I hope that thinking of her will give you strength to do what you need to do.
Thank you Vanda. Yes, I am still disappointed. I’ve always been good to all kids, always been good to my wife and her son. It feels like I am punished for nothing.
I am happy that I was able to hold my daughter in the arms now, but as said, it was conditional as it seems. Still remember all the words of my wife “I want you to cut the umbilical cord”… “I am afraid you won’t be there” (to which I replied, there is nothing that would prevent me to be there… well, would I have known that she breaks up).
I sat in the living room today with my mother. Sitting near the window as there is the table, we saw her two times today. She’s visiting her mother the half day… her son is now sleeping at his grandmas home since days according to neighbors.. Everything as we expected… her mother will now take care of her son. But that was always her mothers goal, to take her son. Win-win… her mother has her son now, and my wife has less stress.
She had difficutlies with one child, how would it be with two? Together it would have worked. But I guess this is another puzzle piece of the whole strory… she felt I was competiton… someone who just asked that we all sit together at the table, that her son eats together with us so that we don’t make him feel excluded… so many more things. And with everything I included her, to make her feel “we create a system for our small family”. It wasn’t seen like that.
While I am happy about my daughter. She is such a cutie… I can’t await to see her again…. I am very disappointed that such a broken person is is not checked through. Child welfare is a complete joke… it only counts for mothers. Can’t comprehent after all I supplied the welfare service with, that no alarm bells ring there.
The longer it takes until I spend more time with the baby, the higher the damage will be. Her son had massive deficits… over time I was able to correct some of them… I am hope I am able to do the same with my daughter. For now, she simply doesn#t have the same starting conditions like other kids… not even compared to the foster child of my mother.
Since the foster child of my mother was with my mother since the beginning, you see already now at age 3.. such a balanced kid, so smart… almost can’t comprehend her progress with just 3 years. How far developed she already is. In some respects, even more developed than the son of my wife… example would be, my foster sister can put her clothes on, alone without help… without motor skill difficulties.
The son of my wife had difficulties to turn around a t-shirt with 6… and severe motor skill difficulties. Not just that, it’s like nobody couraged him to attempt such things alone… I then started couraging and motivating him… showing him once and then “You can do it, I promise you!”… he always smiled when I’ve done that and was eager to show me that he can do it.
That’s where my fears are… thinking about my own daughter. She has a bad start. Her chances won’t be equal compared to other kids. That’s why I will attempt to get her out there. No matter if I lose… I will attempt it.
That’s the spirit. Always try to do what you can.
Congratulations. I am happy for you that you are the father of a beautiful baby girl. I am not happy about your situation right now. I very much hope it improves. Did you ever ask your wife why she lets her mother control her? Of course, she will deny it but it will make her think the next time her mother tells her something.
Thank you. Same here… happy to be father but unhappy with the situation.
“Did you ever ask your wife why she lets her mother control her?”
Yes, this was topic right from the beginning. The contact between my wife and her mother broke as soon as my wife came together with me officially. My wife told me what to expect. That it’s always been like that but that she no longer let her mother decide for her life.
Ironically, I always had small talk with her mother in the park, long before I came together with her daughter. You’d think it’s a normal person like everyone, maybe slanders a bit too much (including about her own daughter), maybe putting her nose into lifes of others and attempting to extract information from and about everyone. But that alone… well, we have a ton of people here who are such babblers. Just don’t talk too much with them and you’re fine, is how you deal with such people.
But then I came together with her daughter officially. Her mother broke contact with her daughter, turned me into an enemy in no time. Her mother stopped greeting and what not. My wife said, it’s just history repeating… her mother acted like this also with other exes.
She is afraid to lose control. Managed the entire life of my wife that even my wife once said “This must be why I have difficulties with very easy things like taking decisions, doing adult tasks and so on”. My wife said it’s always been like that, told me things about her teenage years and how she sees it now, but that it always felt difficult to break free.
Her mother is a narcissist for sure. You don’t have to be a doctor for that, you only need to take a closer look not just chatting in the park. My wife did show me text messages, and voice messages during that time. It’s been true WHAT THE FU material… threatening her daughter to take away her son and what not. Even calling kindergarden and telling them lies. Or… all kind of manipulation techniques like using her dogs death to call her daughter, crying on the telefon asking her daughter to stop by (hoovering her back in… and then repeating the drama later). I could write a book.
My wife basically stopped being controlled, to a certain point. My wife imagined one condition where she would get back into contact with her mother again. It was this one “You accept my life decisisions, includding that I married and now have a husband. Accept him or GFY”. Can you guess what a narcissist is doing then? Sure thing! If I can’t control her alone, why don’t I attempt to control her and her husband.
He mother is dangerious. Patient, very subtile… plays people out against each other. Runs smear campaigns behind your back in the district. Sets up traps, attempt to cause situations that brought me into conflict with my wife. Such persons don’t play with rules. She would for example tell her daughter everything she wants to hear, while acting completely different… my wife stopped noticing. At some point it felt like I married her mother. This brought me into conflict with my wife.
She even went so far to fight my own mother. Telling my wife bad things about my mother that are not true. For example that she runs the smear campaigns. Set up the stories in ways so that they could be believable… narcissists are evil, but doesn’t mean they’re smart… eventually her mother couldn’t keep track of her triangulation games… she had chosen another person let’s call her person B… she then claimed it’s not her running smear campaigns, it’s person B who talks shit about my mother. My mother confronted person B. That’s when shit did hit the fan. Now we didn’t just assume that my wife’s mother was running smear campaigns… gazzilion of facts came to the surface. Person B was best friend with my wife’s mother… now they’re enemies too xD And it’s the short version… I could write a book for sure.
Manipulation of my wife was so far progressed, that she still believed her mother no matter the facts.
Let’s say pregnancy triggered my wife to get a much stronger borderline episode… I am sure her mother knows that she can push buttons in this case… let’s say my wife has a phase with psychotic ideation… irrational thoughts I am betraying her or something like that… her mother would start to validate the most irrational thoughts of her daughter… especially if that could lead to a point where my wife wants breakup (her mother would then regain full control).
The poor side effect of this is… that my wife truly appears to have a psychotic episode now and it got worse the more contact she had with her mother.
Having such a mother for 28 years… it’s clear why my wife suffers from emotionally unstable personality disorder (aka borderline). I would be able to explain this in detail now… but the short answer is… having parents or one part of a parent that is toxic… never loved you, only loved you conditionally…. otherwise punished and manipulated you. Controlled you… denied your perception, to overwrite it with something else (gaslighting)… validate you if you do wrong things or perceive something wrongly, invalidate you if you perceive or do something right. Literally, brainwashing you your entire life.
My wife is not able to overcom the childhood trauma. Last year she was on a good way. Now she doesn’t understand anymore. But I do. She is borderline because of her mother. She reenact earlier trauma every year and it’s a never ending loop. It’s called repetition compulsion. Boyfriends/husbands turn into mother replacements… my wife is a 2 years old child in an adult body… she wants mother to love her. But her mother never did, at least not like a normal person would. My wife and every other person with borderline wants to be loved… she so much wants closeness, someone to care… but when she gets such a person, her brain will perceive it as dangerous. Her brain starts to see the husband as mother object and since mother was always bad, this person must be wiped out. But when dinstance is created again, they feel so empty, to eventually contact the ex partner again (I hate you, don’t leave me).
Long story short. Person with borderline perceives love as threat, since they never got it from their mother (or both and so). It’s abnormal, thus they must create distance. Partner then gets the punishment for what her mother caused in her life (subconsciously). They constantly seek mothers love… my wife is in a life long trauma bond with her mother… and when there is contact again (even if it was caused by manipulation and other toxic ways) she attempts to get love again… from the person she never got it from and never will get from.
That’s my own knowledge based on what I know from their family dynamic and psychological stuff I consumed over the last months. It’s a very classic borderline daughter, narc mother constelation… similar to daddy issues… but in this case mommy issues. But it’s far more complex.
2022, she was on the rirght track… she needs to end contact to her mother forever… even I didn’t believe her… always told her “Well, it’s still your mother, maybe she changed, go visit her….”. Would I have known. No, my wife was right… and afraid to get soaked back in. Her mother achieved this by the end of the year.
Second comment. It’s also interesting how easily she talked about her controlling mother on her own at the beginning. My wife started the topics, shared with me how toxic her mother is.
When my wife changed sides… I couldn’t even say anymore “I mean, you saw and said it yourself, why don’t you see it anymore?”. She now was mad that I complained about her mom… her mother completeley gaslit her… severe brainwashing. Or is blood thicker? I don’t know. I think it’s being gaslit for 28 years, maybe you break free for a moment, but maybe it’s difficult to do so forever.
Her mother was even huge topic in the court documents. She is a very big part of the entire break up process… and will probably be part of the entire story for a longer time.
Her mother caused so much conflicts, turned people against each other. It’s a truly evil person. She doesn’t look healthy anymore… and honestly, I’ve never thought this way… but if she’d be struck by lightning and drop dead. I would mark it in the calendar and celebrate it each year.
It’s so blatant that my wife is not okay with the breakup. She even regularly writes or says things like that… but she also once said that she doesn’t want to get into conflicts with her mother. She has so much control.
That is too bad that her mother screwed her up like that. My wife also had a mother that was terrible to her. I think even now she excels at everything she does because her mother always made her feel inferior. Like she was not capable of doing something on her own. Then she married a man that did the same thing to her. When I met her I encouraged her to do things she didn’t think she could do. Now she is the highest-ranking employee of a real estate company that owns nine apartment communities. She also stopped talking to her mother three years ago and just recently started talking to her again. I think the mother realized what she lost and is much better to my wife now.
Also, I was lucky because I have a good mother and when I was married to my ex-wife her mother was nicer to me than my own wife was.
Same in my wife’s case. Her mother made her feel inferior as well, resulting in not being capable of doing things on her own. Apart from that, my wife suffers from OCD beside the other stuff… this is very likely connected to that too. “never been validated, always seen as not enough” by her mother. Thus, my wife had episodes of exsessive cleaning and other OCD habits.
“When I met her I encouraged her to do things she didn’t think she could do.”
This is was I basically tried. I encouraged her in every respect. It was later seen as an attack on her… she didn’t perceive it as encouragement… I encouraged her and included her in all decisions. Honestly, a lot of things in her life was a construction site. Especially finances. Or things like that her son only ate corn flakes, and never with us together. I didn’t just encourage her, I was also interested to have family “system”… normal things, like not excluding her son… cooking together, eating together to the same times with everyone at the table. I just felt bad when we excluded her son… she always claimed he doesn’t like to eat other things. Honestly, he discovered more and more things when I wanted us to sit together and eat together…I didn’t force him, I offered him to try things out. He ate all kind of things and started to smile more often.
I think she just perceived me as competition. But it was never meant like that. She later claimed that I stressed her with existential questions…. my idea was to find a system, living together as a family. That everyone feels included. And that finances are sorted (I know many people live on installments, but I guess her mother taught her a rampant way of living..) When my wife cried because of her financial issues, I calmed her down, made a plan to solve the issues and have a better system together. But it felt like having an overview of her own finances was a strange new world to her. I never told her, but it was ridiculous how she thought about money. Never seen something like that. I did help her to solve her issues, for a while she thanked me, but then I was seen as the person who gaves her “existential fears”, by encouraging her to be rational with money.
“Now she is the highest-ranking employee of a real estate company that owns nine apartment communities. She also stopped talking to her mother three years ago and just recently started talking to her again.”
It’s like getting unchained once you break free from the toxic.
“I think the mother realized what she lost and is much better to my wife now.”
I hope that is the case. While my wife never trusted her mother when she reached out, I thought the same you just wrote and always told my wife “Well, maybe…”. I was so wrong ton convince my wife to re-connect. Big mistake. I hope your wife’s mother truly changed.
I must admit that it is difficult for me to understand what your wife and my wife went through. I had good parents so I don’t know. I am luckier than you because my wife sees my encouragement as a sign af love and she appreciated me for pushing her to be better.
My mother was good but back then she was in a toxic relationship. That “stepdad” was able to show good sides but overall he was very toxic. I sometimes wonder how I was able to leave this childhood with all moral values intact and a good life philosophy… the weekends or holidays with my grandma and grandpa at the camp grounds in nature probably showed me normal life and it compensated everything. Having seen both worlds, makes me feel very empathic and makes me understand psychology or effects of different types of upbringings very well. It clicks even more so when I then also start to read relevant articles from psychologists. It’s just sad what kind of damage bad parents can cause to kids and how it affects them later in aduldhood too. My wife has seen my encouragements as love too, but your still luckier, because my wife only seen it as a sign of love for a short period. It’s just sad that her trust issues turned me into an evil person in her mind, someone who really meant it good with her. At the same time she is now allied with the person who messed up her entire life, her mother. So sad.
I have noticed people with bad parents are not all the same. Some became like the parent and others reject the behavior and try to never be like their bad parent. When my wife had her son (from her ex husband) she was worried that she might be violent like her mother was to her, so she tried very hard to be a good mother and she did a good job raising her son.
Yeah, that’s good reflection of the own experiences and the will to do it better. Like you said, not everyone is able to do it but fortunately there are some who learn from the mistakes in their families.